That’s right, it really is Mr. Awesome’s World, we’re all just living in it. There was a conversation today in a random pagan group, it started off like other random discussions. Someone posted a question, looking for advice, people responded and tried to help. Then of course, as is a regular occurance, someone felt the need to make a broad generaliztion about how ALL Witches do things a certain way. That’s when shit hit the fan.
So again, Welcome to Mr Awesome’s World, or… How to Piss off all the Women really fucking quickly.
Maz:…Because when we, the witches, are to take anything from nature, we ask for permission and put something nice as a return to them…
Lala: Really? We as witches do that? I wasn’t aware that ALL of us acted that way.
Maz: Considering witches respect to the nature, we as witches, correcting my sentence, ”should” do that. All the other witches I personally know also does that. I am not sure if I would call someone a witch who just go to nature, pick a flower and don’t care about the spirit of that flower and give no attention to the possible inhabitants live on/in/around it, neither to the mother nature herself.
Lala: I’m not sure that you’d be correct in assuming that ALL witches are animistic or nature loving. That’s my point. Also, I don’t think that mother nature is going to karmically bitchslap people who unthinkingly pick a clover or 500. Thats like saying, you’re fucked my the land spirits because you ran your lawn mover last Saturday.
Anona User 1: Yeah, not all witches do that stuff Maz. I guess I’m considered a witch because I practice magic once and a while and I weed quite often and have never asked the weeds permission. And I have considerably excellent luck, so I really have to disagree with that.
Maz: Have I ever said mother nature would do any harm just because you just picked a flower? It’s about being polite 🙂If not all witches are animistic or nature lover, which make a bizarre situation in my opinion, what is the meaning in calling them a witch? Are they not simply magicians/spirituals/occults or whatever they should be called? Being a witch, by its very philosophy, is to follow the wisdom of nature (therefore plants, crystals, animals and wider sense whole universe) and respect to the nature herself. If someone is calling himself/herself without caring about nature, value the plants, I’m sorry but I must say there is a confusion about the definition of the witchcraft. Is there any pop-culture phenomenon who gives people right to call themselves witch, just because they practice magick? Witchcraft is a philosophy, lot more than everyday magick practices, I’m sorry to say this.
Lala: I’m sorry, but I believe you are using Witch (title) and Witchcraft (skill set/ set of practices) as if they were religions.
Anona User 1: Im starting a new thread to avoid hijacking this one with an argument over definitions.
~New Thread~
Maz: Ok, I will continue here, as the purpose of this is exactly that 🙂 Lala, a Witch, is a person who is obviously in the practice of witchcraft. Like a carpenter is someone who is practicing carpentry-craft. 🙂 Witch and Witchcraft is interconnected 🙂 Would it be true to take them separate from each other? I am not talking as if they were a religion. Witchcraft, is ”path”. That’s why such philosophies, such as witchcraft, are called as ”old ways, old paths, old wisdoms”. Believe it or not, I know people who are Witch, but also Christian, Muslim and et cetera. Witchcraft allow you to put your own ”archetypes” to the practices, sometimes. For example, you may be a Tamerian Witch, but you can also work with the Chinese pantheon. You may not even work with the Gods and the Goddesses directly. You may choose to honour feminine and masculine (ying-yang) poles of the Ultimate Creator, if you believe in such thing.In my opinion, what makes someone a witch is not practicing magic, or working with the gods and goddesses (considering not every witch is pagan). It is the philosophy, the ”path” of the nature, in which witches ”SHOULD” give some respect to. Otherwise, I really can’t see a point in calling someone witch, other than just a magician.
Lala: Unless one is claiming the title of Witch in a particular Trad, then I only see it as a title, or a skill set. Not all witches are going to be nature lover
Maz: Ok, I’m still asking then Lala. What is the differency between a witch, and a magician? What you say is like ”you don’t need a child of your own if really want to be a biological mom.” You need to have met some criteria if you want to be called as a witch 🙂
Lala: I’d rather phrase it as you don’t have to give birth to a child to be a mother. Caring for a child, taking care of their needs, and raising them is what would make one a Mother. Has jack shit to do with Biology.
Anona User 2: I see witchraft as a trade… like a capenter. Carpentry is name for a whole bunch of skills which all relate to woodwork….. and not all carpenters can do all of those skills. Witchraft is to me a name for a whole group of skills… shielding and grounding, herbcraft, divination, astral projection and the lsit can go for a lot longer than that…. and just like not all carpenters do all the different wood working skills not all witches do all the skills which are part of witchcraft.
Lala:Magician implies some kind of ceremonial magic, or magic within a specific frame in my mind. Or it implies one who puts on a show of slight of hand.
Maz: You are not a Mother, still, Lala. But, if you say only giving care to a child, raising them is enough, lets make woman stop giving birth. And lets watch where the ”Mother” title goes. You need to give birth, thats that to be honest 🙂 No one is a Mother, unless there are children around. And for children, someone must give birth, and keep the MOTHER title alive 🙂As I said, there is a philosophy of witchcraft. If you don’t follow it, ”IN MY OPINION” you should not be called as a witch. For sure, call yourself anything you would like to, no one can say anything. Obviously, we all have our own ideas about being a witch and can’t influence each others ideas. So therefore, no point to debate 🙂 What I think is obvious, what others think is obvious. As I said, in my opinion what is called as ”witchcraft” has lot more than practicing magic.
Lala: I’m not a mother? Damn… I guess I have to tell my kids that. Thanks so much for your divinely inspirational wisdom.
Also, I’m so thrilled to be in the presence of your narrow view of life and the term mother. I’ll be sure to pass that along to all people who have adopted children, step children, etc.
Furthermore, since I already see your opinion on this matter, I don’t think it’d be a wide leap that you will say that in order to be a woman someone has to have a vagina. You’re TOTES awesome Dude!
Maz: Come on, don’t be that petulant. You obviously get what I mean, but still insisting not to understand it. If you give birth, you are mother. If you take care of children, you are a mother too, but I’m sorry not in a same way as the one that gives birth. I don’T even argue which one is better, since sometimes the ones who take care is lot more ”mother”. But at the end of the day, you are not that ”mother”.
Shae: Excuse me? NOT a mother? the one who takes care of that child, sits up them while puking their little heads off, holding them close when their friends dont want to play today, telling them “no” when what they want to do violates the rules, both parental and societal..THAT person IS a mother. Most of the female species can give birth…Not ALL of them care to keep said child or take care of it. Those are NOT mothers, they just provided the growing room…same as deadbeat sperm donors. So I take offense at your claiming that Lala is not a mother because she does all of those things for HER chiuldren instead of letting someone else do so for her. I have to say your ideas of definition of such is sorely lacking
Maz: Shae, please read the message I sent just about 10 secs before you. You will get what I mean.
Shae McQuoid I read it. My point still is that MOTHER as the name implies is the care giver..not the one who provided life. Even surrogates refrain from labeling themselves as such
Maz: And please consider without that life giver, there would be no child. And in what way, anothers who can not give life would get the title of Mother?Please, please don’t take it so personal. I obviously need to copy my message to make it clear what I say.(Come on, don’t be that petulant. You obviously get what I mean, but still insisting not to understand it. If you give birth, you are mother. If you take care of children, you are a mother too, but I’m sorry not in a same way as the one that gives birth. I don’T even argue which one is better, since sometimes the ones who take care is lot more ”mother”. But at the end of the day, you are not that ”mother”.)
Lala Lynn Davis Hey, seriously, Mr Awesome. I Gave Birth to Three Demon Spawn.
That in and of itself doesn’t make me anything more than a baby factory, the care that comes after is what makes one a Mother.
Cat: So then I suppose the birth mother who beats her child to death is more of a mother than a woman who opens her heart to a child in your oh so learned opinion?
Anona User 2: Being a sperm donor of an egg donor doesn’t make a father or a mother…… you know, on second thoughts I am not gonna go there as that post Maz was to me both offensive and disrespectful both to Lala Lynn Davis and anyone else out there who loves and cares for a child who doesn’t share their DNA.
Shae McQuoid you can copy as often as you like. all that proves is that you have the concept of copy/paste down to an art form. what you do NOT understand are those who provide care for little people feel adamantly about how we are perceived by others. Those people who leave babies in dumpsters or bathroom stalls, are NOT mothers in any shape fashion or form, but according to your definition they are. I vehemently disagree
Cat: Someday Maz your words may come back to haunt you. Some day you could love a child who you did not sire and they will turn around and say ‘you aren’t my father’.
Maz: Oh God, I obviously can’t express what I want to say clearly.Ok then, with your way:You are a Mother, either because you give birth, or because you take care.Then without babies, how can you take care. Without being a ”factory”, who is to take care? There must be ”Mothers who give birth” and ”Mothers who take care”. If you do them both, good for you. If you do just one of them, I’m sorry but this does not change the fact that you are a Mother. Where did you get your foster children? Did birds brought them to you?And still sorry to say, what you think about being a Mother is not what i think, once again. You, as women, take this emotionally, which is not my case, since most of you are mother.
Cat: ’We as women’. REALLY? I can assure you that the fathers I know who have taken other children into their hearts would not only be emotional, they’d probably take the opportunity to kick your sorry bigoted butt all over the yard.
Maz: Oh God, I need to copy/paste what I have said with caps lock obviously.I DON’T EVEN ARGUE WHİCH ONE IS BETTER, SINCE SOMETIMES THE ONES WHO TAKE IS LOT MORE ”MOTHER”.Seriously, try to read and understand because all of you are being funny right now. I am not even sure you are reading what at I write as a WHOLE!
Keri: ”You, as women, take this emotionally, ” What fresh hell is this shit?
Sorry, dude (totes androgynous term, by the way), I ran into this thread late, and all I’m reading into your comments are “Women have a certain function, and if they can’t (or won’t) adhere to that function, they have no worth.Also, women are by nature, unable to communicate clearly, and therefore must be talked to as little children.”
If I’m wrong, I’d really like you to demonstrate that. Otherwise, I’ll know where in the misogynist spectrum to file you.
Lala: Oh, keep digging that hole Mr Awesome, He of Vast amounts of knowledge and wisdom.
I’m SO Grateful you came along today to inform all of us lowly women, who get just a little TOO emotional at times.
Why I, I think I might come down with a case of the vapors.
Anona User 2: Or perhaps… we as Mothers in all our various shapes take huge pride in our ttile of Mother no matter how our children came to us. A birth mother is no better than one who did not give birth to her children and we take it emotionally because we find it to be offensive to imply one is inferior to the other! (I say we as I get the feeling most of the ladies posting here share the same view)
Anona User 1: Just because I don’t worship nature doesn’t make me not a witch. I respect nature, but even if I didn’t that doesn’t make me any less of a witch. I practice magic, true magic, not slight of hand. And quite honestly it offends me when someone tries to fit me into a new age nature worshipping box. Where do you get the definition of witch that you have?
Maz: Shae, it was not yelling, yet you wanted to see it that way. To be honest I get the feeling that you guys (or maybe I need to say womens??? since women are 2nd class for me?) don’t read what I say at all.For the other people, If you REALLY try to see what I say all about the issue at my above messages, you will get the ”mother” term has got more meaning for me.As I said, the one who foster, for most of the time is lot more ”mother” then the one who give birth. Implies on animals and other things that need to taken care of.I am once again sorry to say but the fact that the ones who give birth also considered mother, whether they take care of their children or not. I am not talking with a conscious of society, morals and ethics, this is a fact. In a ”moral” way, she may not be called a ”mother”. But sorry, If I need to give various names for people, I would say ”baby factory” to the one who give birth, and ”baby sitter” to the one who take care. Sorry, may be sounds rude for you, but reality hurts.Never said anything about for your efforts, SINCE I WAS BORN FROM A FEMALE. And believe it or not, which I don’t give any credit for your belief, I care about women. Try to read what I say. Try to understand not from a moral/ethic view but from a ”literature” view. You might get what I mean with mother, then.I really would love to say more things, but right know you all have the idea that there is someone who insult being a mother, being a women and et cetera. It is a fact, that women are more emotional then men, at least majority of woman lets say. Really, try not to take everything personally. Facts are facts. I don’t call myself father, just because I take more care to my brother, than my father. Morally, yes I am. But as a fact, I am not a father, sorry. Imply that to your case.
Mr Awesome has left the thread at this point.
